The Assassin is the most under appreciated class in GW right now. Maybe I should say most hated. It's a strong word that I don't like to use, but I see it many times while playing. Usually 'assassin' and 'hate' are utilized in the same sentence.

The thing with assassins is this [and I'm sure most of you know all about it]: 95% of assassins do not know how assassins are supposed to played. I have seen people in groups say to take a warrior instead of an assassin because they are better tanks. I have seen people in groups say to take an ele instead of an assassin because they deal more damage. I have never heard more truer words in my entire GW experience. People actually do understand what an ele and a warrior are good for!!  Hallelujah!!!

Now; where does the assassin fit into the group? The answer may come to you.

When I play my assassin I often think about my skill-bar as having to be self-sufficient and quick to kill. When I play my assassin I get into the mind-set that I have to follow the group as they plow though and clear the area, but I have to be there as a seperate entity to quickly eliminate high priority targets.

Let me explain this craziness. Your group comes upon a mob with 3 warriors 2 mesmers an ele and a monk. Who do you think is the highest priority [as an assassin]? I could do what 95& of assassins do and charge the front line with the warrior and beat away on the warriors as their mesmers shut down your monks, eles and necros. While their monk out-heals any damage done to their beefed-up hammer warriors, and their ele lays the smack down on your back line.

I; however, prefer to shadow-step in and attempt a spike on their monk.  Failing a quick kill [less than 8 seconds] I will immediately go and kill a mesmer.  If one mesmer dies very quickly then the other one is just too succulent to pass up.  *Checks the area and sees if I took too much attention killing the mesmer.  If I have become the focus I step out, and go in for more soft and chewy goodness after they decide I'm not worth the trouble. 

Eles are a different matter. Unless I have a build that is sorta catered to dealing with them I hesitate or just save them for last. No monk or mesmer or necro you will ever face in PvE will serve your assassin's heart on a silver platter.  Warriors, eles and some rits will most assuredly kill you before you're done with your off-hand or while you're beating on them and waiting for a recharge.  That's assuming the healers are unable to heal you.

Just a few major pointers:

1) Never be the first one to engage. YOU ARE NOT A TANK

2) Let up if the heat is on. People will not notice an assassin running from the heat of battle as much as an assassin lying face down.

3) Self heals avaliable to assassins are there to help for the duration of the spike, and usually have no lasting effect. Use that tid-bit to help you remember how a-net maybe wanted the assassin to be played.

4) You are not a Ranger. I saw with my own eyes many many assassins using barrage and a bow. How is that possibly as effective as a ranger using barrage and a bow? They bleed sometimes too? I'd take a barrage ranger over a barrage assassin any day of the week.
*EDIT* How is that as effective as an assassin playing as an assassin? *END EDIT*

5) One warrior is not really that bad for your health. If there is more than one, or even a chance there will be more leave them for the classes that are better equiped.

6) The killing blow is what counts. OK, your going up against difficult enemies. Say in RoF; a group of 4 jade armors. Definately not safe for you to engage in melee. Let the team waste away their health; step in and put them out of their misery with a nicely timed combos.

7) Think of your assassin as quick and nimble killer bee. I'm sure a-net would have called them that, but then no one would create one. My killer bee is lvl 12!!!

Always assume that you will not recieve healing.  Because you faced down 4 jade armors for 30 seconds, and lived to tell the tale, does not make you a super-assassin; rest assured the monk in the party is cursing your name under their breath. Assume you will not be healed as you shadow-step past the front line and engage their casters.

I'd like to make a note here about henchie AI. Admittedly henching with an assassin is not very fun, and it forces you into the tank mentality. The good news is that A-net has sececretly been improving hench AI. I have never noticed this with any other class, but they play much better now with assassins. If you shadow-step past the front line to the casters, Sister Tai and friends will not come rushing in to save you immediately. Before they changed it, the healer would crawl through the burning pits of hell to slap a healing light on you. Now it seems that there is a more advanced routine at work, and the burning pits of hell look less attractive to them. Signent of Devotion FTW!!!!!

Have to disagree with ya on #4.

Having played mostly in PUG's I can say that it's extremely hard to get into one with the profs reputation, so I went Crit/Barr with mine and not only is it fun to play, it's easier to get into a PUG, and does some serious spike damage on crit hits and with a zealous mod I never,ever have to worry about energy. I don't even use Sharpen Daggers. And I get a pet .

I have only personal experiance to back this up, but for some reason monsters just don't seem to attack this build when I play with all hench. I was using Shadow Refuge for healing and took it off the skill bar cause nothing ever noticed me. Odd, but I'll take it

Everyone has their own style that fits them,dismissing a build out-of-hand like that means you might be missing out on some fun.

IMHO.

I agree.  I also have played the Arcane Healer role with my elementalist; used hammers with my ranger, and it is fun. But it's arguably not any better than dropping a meteor shower or using a hammer with strength at the max.

Let's try to keep the topic in focus. I think right now, the question is: who is better at spike damage, warrior or assassin? That's why I said "I never understood how an assassin can be better than a W/A" and one of them has to be better because we're only discussing damage output since mobility from Shadow Arts (or Deadly Arts) is available to both.

No, the ritualist protects his allies with the use of spirits and the monks uses directing healing or protection spells. This way, they do not over-heal a target like 2 monks would be likely to do. And that is an example why a ritualist is a perfect complement to a monk, but I do not think you've given such an example for a warrior and an assassin.

You are using stereotypical roles to enforce your argument. That warrior occupies a space in the party just as an assassin would. To clarify, IF a warrior can do better spike damage than an assassin then he should be used instead of an assassin.

I'm assuming we are discussing PvP here because spike damage is prety useless in PvE (you might as well get another nuker or tank). And there is no "moment of opportunity" in PvP, spikes are always coordinated (otherwise they wouldn't be so effective). Furthermore, since warriors have much better damage output than an assassin when they are not using skills, that spiking warrior can actually be usefull while the assasin just stands or tries to move behind the enemy; the opponents will easily spot the assassin and be ready to counter him, but the spiking warrior is already in casting range for most casters since he will have many conditions, hexes, and air spikes casted on to him.

How can you talk about the role that an assassin plays in a group without comparing it to all the other characters?
I think the topic that I brought up is very relevant because IF the warrior is better at spike damage than an assassin, then the role, of the sin in a group, has to be redefined.
It is the same reason why I would not discuss a damage-based ranger build; there is no point to it since the respective profession is much better at dishing out conditions like bleed, poison, and cripple or interrupting the enemy.

And, from what I read so far, you generally use your warrior for absorbing, not dishing out, damage; maybe if you tried a build that's specialized on spike damage you would get better results.

The damage isn't hard to calculate, so let's compare an axe W/A with an assassin.

The warrior can use Eviscerate Elite (+25, deep), Axe Rake (+8, cripple), Power Attack (+26), Executioner's Strike (+34), Tiger's Stance, and 3 other skills. Oh, and just to simplify things, I'll ignore that Strength gives a certain percentage of armor penetration and I won't take into account when, for example, Eviscerate is a critical hit.
At 13 weapon mastery, this character does:
[28 * sqrt(2)] * (13 * 0.0144) + {[(6 + 28) / 2] * (1- 13 * 0.0144)} = 21.23 damage per normal attack
And at 16 weapon mastery it's: 22.21 damage per normal attack.
So, a full warrior combo does:
21 * 4 + 27 + 9 + 36 + 27 = 183 damage at 13 weapon mastery + deep wound + cripple
22 * 4 + 33 + 11 + 42 + 31 = 205 damage at 16 weapon mastery + deep wound + cripple
That's all in 1.33 * 0.67 * 4 = 3.6 seconds; Tiger's Stance will last for another 6 attacks.

Now, hammer W/A vs assassin. Skills: Devastating Hammer Elite (kd, weakness), Crushing Blow (+16, deep), Fierce Blow (+34), Mighty Blow (+29). Same rules and calculations:
31.21 * 4 + 0 + 17 + 36 + 31 = 208 damage at 13 weapon mastery + 2 sec KD + deep wound
32.18 * 4 + 0 + 23 + 42 + 37 = 230 damage at 16 weapon mastery + 2 sec KD + deep wound
That's in 1.75 * 0.67 * 4 = 4.69 seconds; Tiger's Stance will last for another 3 attacks.

I played an assassin a long time ago but didn't like it's style. Could you post 4 attack skills that you've found to be the most effective? I could do the calculations.

And just a reminder to everybody else: I did not take into account the armor penetration bonus from Strength, nor the baseline Armor, so when a warrior unleashes his combo on a 60 AL target, he will do a lot more than what the numbers show here. This is only a comparison between warrior and assassin, which means I don't care what the actual damage is, I only want to know who can do more of it.

Edit: I have played an assasin long before I played a warrior. My favourite combo was... pretty average: Unsuspecting, Desperate, Golden Phoenix, Critical Strike. And then I had a cripple + jungle, and kd + falling spider. I don't know which 4 of those to choose and that's why I'm asking you.
Furthermore, I realised that a warrior is much more useful in PvE than an Assassin so I deleted him and made a W/A. Now that all of my 4 char slots are full, I can't make an assassin (buying a char slot isn't an option either).
Could you expand on that? I see them as the same thing. Or are you saying that the assassin has the potential to be better than a warrior when, in the present reality, it's not? I think what you said is too vague.
Perhaps a mathematical proof will change their mind (if not, I'm not sure that anything else ever could); care to give it a try?

In PvE, I've found Assassins particularly effective at quickly dealing out conditions.

This is my all-purpose PvE build I use for my Assassin.

A/Mo
Dagger Mastery   11+3+1
Critical Strikes     9+1
Deadly Arts         6+1
Healing Prayers    9

Jagged Strike
Iron Palm
Wild Strike
Horns of the Ox
Falling Spider
Twisting Fangs
Vigorous Spirit
Moebius Strike [E]

Weapon: Ceremonial Daggers

One of the nice things about this build is its versatility.  After Jagged Strike, there are a number of different combos you can go into:

If target foe is in a mob:
Jagged Strike -> Iron Palm -> Falling Spider -> Twisting Fangs -> Moebius Strike -> (Start)

If target foe is alone:
Jagged Strike -> Wild Strike -> Horns of the Ox (if alone) -> Falling Spider -> Twisting Fangs -> Moebius Strike (Start)

If target foe is in a mob and Iron Palm is recharging:
Jagged Strike -> Wild Strike -> Twisting Fangs -> Moebius Strike -> (Start)

Another nice thing about this build is the quick recharge time on most all attacks. With Moebius Strike recharge is 0, but if you didn't get Moebius Strike off before the target died, then Jagged Strike and Wild Strike are usually up before your first combo ends.

If you find that you need more healing or mobility, you could switch out Moebius for another elite (at the cost of DPS however).

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As far as spike damage, I think the main thing Assassins have going for them is their ability to execute whole spike chains right after each other.  They also don't have to wait for 7 to 8 strikes of adrenaline to get to their heavy hitting attacks.  Instead they can get there in 1 to 2 attacks and repeat them again in a matter of seconds.

True, a Warrior could pick up a set of daggers and perform the same chains, but I think they would run into energy problems having 1 less energy pip and getting no return off of critical strikes.

CiD

I capped Mobeus Strike a little while ago, and I must say this: CiD that build you posted does well. It's easier to want to stay in the danger zone though because it can just keep going and going.  I found myself getting a little shall I say 'over zelous' and not wanting to pull out.  *Dirty thoughts*
I wish mobeus was NOT an elite.